"The innovation is still going on [...] we're in the middle of an inflection point."
After a little over an hour, the conversation is coming to its conclusion. Mike Littrell [ML], founder and President of Buildparts, and Joe Allison [JA], CEO of Evolve Additive Solutions, have covered everything from the service bureaus they set up decades ago to the novel 3D printing technologies they are now working to bring to market. As the TCT editorial team is about to call time on this upcoming Innovators on Innovators episode, Littrell and Allison get into the nitty gritty of Evolve Additive's STEP process, the materials development approaches of this thermoplastic technology and the WAV process that Littrell and his Paxis team are developing, as well as what's next for the duo.
There is no room for the following back and forth in Monday's (October 17th) episode, but rather than leave this exchange on the cutting room floor, we thought we'd give you a flavour of what's to come.
ML: The nice thing about what you guys are doing and the problem with the photopolymer world is the number of ingredients that are required to create one resin - they have to come from multiple suppliers. In your case, you're able to utilise these, what, 25-micron pellets of thermoplastics? What is the next material that you think you're going to drive into? You mentioned polycarb, but are you looking at maybe ULTEM or PEEK or PEKK as possibly running through your system?
JA: Yeah, we very much believe it'll be able to do ULTEM, PEEK, PEKK. But it would be a major upgrade to the thermal stuff on the equipment to reach that. So we're gonna launch it with lower temperature materials than those. But the polycarbonate is within the means of the current machine. So, we have three different materials that are at the top of the list right now. That's polycarbonate, Nylon, and a TPU. And so which one comes out first? I don't know.
ML: Are you solvent bonding the micron pellets together? Or are they heated during the process?
JA: That's a great question. It's heated, and then put on with a slight amount of pressure, but there's no solvent bond in it. And so for instance, the ABS is from SABIC, so it's the same material that everybody's injection moulding with. We micronise it, treat it so that it holds the charge, and then it's just heat and pressure that we put it down with. But like I say it has less built-in stress than injection moulding does because you have pressure gradients through an injection moulded part. And when you lay it down like this, I mean, it gets to like anneal gently, and relieve all that stress.
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ML: Wow, that's incredible. Now, do you guys do the processing of the material yourself?
JA: We have partners that do it, but we own the technology.
ML: Yeah, [Paxis is] currently utilising some large, well, we did announce that we were working with BASF and Arkema. But I think inevitably, we're going to have to bring in some folks to do some development work on our side. But I was curious to see when you first developed this technology, did you just create your own pelletised small micron materials? Or did you still have to work with something that was off the shelf?
JA: Yeah. And you said 'you' when you said that, it wasn't me, it was some really smart engineers led by a very smart engineer named Steve Chillscyzn that came up with that. And that's one of the key factors, micronizing and turning into toner, the thermoplastics.
ML: That’s really, truly impressive. What else are you working on too because obviously you’re doing quite a few things, right?
I think this will be the finish of my career here in 3D printing.
JA: Let's say outside of Evolve? Actually, I have reined in my investment activities, so that I can completely focus on Evolve. And I think we have other people within 3D Ventures too that are contributing free time to help move this along. Like I said, we've invested in about 15 companies. And this was the first one that we looked at, and we realised this is truly a new technology. And with the possibilities, we went all in and we kind of backed off on the other investments and we're focused very much on this. Not just me, but my other partners at 3D Ventures.
ML: So with you jumping in like this, obviously your experience and your background started in liquid photopolymers, are you excited that you're now going to be in these thermoplastics? I mean, it's such a big jump for you too from your beginnings.
JA: Sure, absolutely. Well, one, we did get into, most of the 3d printing service bureaus got into, all these other technologies for low volume, we got into injection moulding and we were doing maybe 10 million a year in injection moulding, all low volume stuff, but found we really had to have the tools made in China, have all the first runs done in China, and then you could maybe bring the tool over to the US. So, I've got a lot of experience in the injection moulding side. So now [I have] finally got a toy to go after that market with. So anyways, yeah, to me, that's exciting. I think this will be the finish of my career here in 3D printing, [I'll] go back into quiet semi-retirement after this, but I'm having fun again right now.
ML: That’s great.
JA: How about you, Mike? What do the next three to five years look like for you?
ML: Well, obviously we're trying to look at Cideas and understand what path we're gonna go on the service bureau side. And I think that we had developed this true quote engine that I think would fit very well inside OEM/RP labs. So we're going to be continuing to develop that software component as an internal quoting engine for internal OEM/RP labs and possibly for service bureaus that have project manager shortages, where they need to be able to do a lot of quotes quickly. And it's a really unique software. So we're looking at Cideas as almost being multiple companies now where Buildparts is our service bureau, TrueQuote will be our software. There's a big drive for industrial filament and we've been manufacturing our own filament since 2002, with a major upgrade to our formula in 2010, 2011, and 2012ish. So we're planning on rolling out a possible material line of just ABS plastics and filament form that we've verified and have run probably 30,000 pounds through our machines in the last ten years. And then, of course, we've got Paxis, which is the complete spin-off and we're obviously going to be driving that forward for the next five years.
So, I don't like to look five years ahead, because that's a long time in this industry, but in the next couple, the next year or two, we're going to start seeing some major changes within our organisation as well as with Paxis and, like I said, I'm really looking forward to having you come out to see it.
JA: I'm looking forward to it.
ML: Yeah, and I can't wait to come up to see STEP process.
JA: You let me know whenever you're ready.
ML: That sounds great.
JA: I'm looking forward to that.
The Innovators on Innovators discussion between Joe Allison and Mike Littrell will be available wherever you get your podcasts from Monday October 17th.
